Author Topic: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?  (Read 2139 times)

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Offline sshyvers

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Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« on: March 08, 2009, 09:02:23 AM »
I recently contacted Hartland Locomotive Works to inquire about the type of plastic that is used for the black-colored plastic parts in their Mini Series 4-wheel car kits.  I received a nice email message in return that informed me that some of the black-colored parts were nylon and some were acetal (Delrin), and therefore I was not going to find a glue that would be effective on them.  I really appreciated the promptness of Hartland's response and its candor.

What prompted my inquiry was a recent purchase of a dozen Hartland tipper cars, or skips. The sideframes, wheels, couplers, and uprights for the bucket are black-colored plastic. I wanted to do some modifications to the journals using styrene, so started experimenting with various cements to find out what would bond best. I tried cements for styrene, ABS, and PVC, as well as epoxy, and none of them would adhere to the black-colored plastic. (For comparison styrene-type cements will adhere to the brown-colored tipper bodies.)

I examined the Hartland Mini wheelsets carefully and could see concentric turning marks, so I assume that these parts are probably acetal, as it can be machined. I assume that the other black-colored plastic parts are nylon.

So.... No modifications to the sideframes as planned unless I use mechanical fastenings. Unfortunately this would over-complicate this project, which was to be a quick way to get a decent rake of tippers to haul behind my chain-driven locos. It also means that the basic color for the tippers will be black, as it's unlikely that paint will stick to the nylon parts. Neither consequence is a cause for tears. The tippers will look just fine for their intended purpose, and I'm grateful to Hartland for making such nice basic kits available.

Steve





Offline snowshoe

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 11:14:16 AM »
Thats strange.  I have repainted all my HLW mini series with no problem.  I use the acrylic paints found in crafts stores.  Once the paint dries I spray it with a matt finish or a clear coat flat.  They have been outdoors for long periods with no effect to the paint.  Rustolem (I think I spelt that wrong) paints also work.  You just need to put  alot of coats on

I also have not had problems with glue sticking to them.  I found gorrila glue works.  Only problem is it does not dry clear and it expands.  You have to be carfull when applying it and then when it dries I just scrape the glue that comes out of the sides.  Once it is painted you dont notice the glue.  Titbond also holds to the HLW cars. 

GHere are a few pictures of my HLW Big John repainted and wood glued to the plastic.  the flat cars with the logs are also HLW
 

This is a HLW gondola converted into a snow plow.  HLW MAck that still needs to painted


HLW flats that have been painted and glued

Offline Jeff Spike

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2009, 03:54:15 PM »
Steve,

There is a cement that I have used for years, now, that I've had success
using for gluing styrene to Hartland mini's such as your tippers.

It is from Faller, Its called Faller Expert Plastic Cement.... it seems to cement
styrene to LGB plastic as well as the Hartland stuff... I recently cemented Hartland
tipper uprights to an LGB skip frame and styrene gussets and all adhered well
to each other.... also, Rustoleum "Hot Rod Dark Gray Primer" sticks well to the
converted Skip/Tipper!!!!

Will try to get some snaps and post for you... the Faller cement is not available in US
as far as I know, but, perhaps some of our overseas friends can get some and send
some over...don't know though...if you can get ahold of some only use with ventilation
and mask, I use mine in my spray booth or outside,

Jeff
  • I am interested or build in the following scales: On30, SEn2, SEn18, 1/8n15
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Offline brian donovan

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2009, 06:32:08 PM »
I haven't had much of a problem using CA or 5 minute epoxy on HLW products. The sideframes on my Dunkirk are modified HLW -

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/dunkirk-water%20tank/dunkleft2.jpg
Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?


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Offline snowshoe

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2009, 07:17:08 PM »
I haven't had much of a problem using CA or 5 minute epoxy on HLW products. The sideframes on my Dunkirk are modified HLW -

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/dunkirk-water%20tank/dunkleft2.jpg
Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?


-Brian


I love that dunkirk of yours.  Theres no doubt it is the nicest looking one I have seen.

Offline sshyvers

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 08:08:13 PM »
Guys,

Thanks for the info and the fine photos. The cements that I tried were IPS Industries Weld-On #16 (for acrylic, but mfg says will handle styrene and ABS too), and Tenax-7R (for plastic models), as well as epoxy and hardware store ABS cement and PVC cement.

I used one of the Hartland couplers as a test piece, and tried to attach a chunk of styrene to it with the different cements. My standard reference adhesive is epoxy, and it would not adhere even to a roughened surface on the coupler. One test was done on the Hartland sideframe with the PVC cement, which didn't stick either. I admit that I didn't test the uprights, as I assumed that they were the same material. I have not used Gorilla Glue or any of the "super glues", except for Eastman 910 a long time ago. My hope was to find a cement that would make the plastic pieces weld together, as styrene cement does with styrene plastic. I will keep an eye out for Faller products. Maybe if I can find out the composition I can find a US supplier for something equivalent.

It's always possible that there's a residual mold release or something that is preventing adhesion. After my various tests I concluded that further experimentation, and purchases of more glue, was driving up the cost of the project and making completion that much more elusive. Both contrary to the original intent. (After all these years, haven't I learned?...)

I admit, too, that I jumped to the conclusion that paint adhesion would also be a problem. I usually use spray-can enamels for convenience and durability, and haven't tried acrylics. I do have some Rustoleum red oxide undercoat, so will try that to see what happens.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Steve
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 10:56:24 PM by sshyvers »

Offline Jeff Spike

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 10:14:51 PM »
Steve,

I wouldn't use the couplers as test subjects as they are probably
nylon or delrin of some sort. I would probably use the uprights
as tests subjects....my opinion only....

Jeff
  • I am interested or build in the following scales: On30, SEn2, SEn18, 1/8n15
Jeffrey Spike
MSR&NS Maintenance and ROW Superintendant (no longer retired, just tired)


"...just the ramblings of a railwayman..."

Offline kevinti28

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 04:04:04 PM »
Steve

I read an article a few days ago about a glue called Dr Mikes.  In the article it said that it works on on all sorts of usually ungluable plastics. 

Here is a link: http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/EDM_Models/Dr_Mikes/reviews.htm#NGI

I have never tried it, but others may be able to say if the claims for it are true ..

Kevin
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Offline brian donovan

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 06:35:02 PM »
I have heard the smae about Dr. Mike's. You can get in at MicroMark -
http://www.micromark.com/DR-MIKES-FORMULA-2-GLUE-1and2-FL-OZ,8534.html

-Brian
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Offline Ferd Mels

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 06:59:08 PM »
The other stuff that works on all plastics including delrin and you can even glue rubber O-rings back together is Tech Bond. They had a booth at NAMES and wow this stuff is impressive.

http://tech-bond.net/

As with all impressive thingies it ain't cheap.  I glued a metal washer to delrin at the show and after hitting it with the accelerator I could not pull or tear the parts apart with a pair of large pliers after a minute of curing. yikes.


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Offline SE18

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 07:53:04 AM »
I've had great success connecting all types of plastic with inexpensive construction adhesive (PL), the kind at Lowe's which uses the pump handle; I think it is silicone. I prep the plastic by filing both sides
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Offline sshyvers

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Re: Hartland Mini-Series Cars - What types of plastic are used?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 01:10:40 PM »
Thanks again for the excellent ideas and product info.  I think I might try Dr. Mike's product (the Tech-Bond product is $$$!).

Steve